Discernment: When You Get Weird Vibes

 Bible, Women & Bathrobes, Episode 45

Sermon on the Mount, part 23

Summary

Tamara, LeMira & Bonnie explore Matthew 7:15-20 and the concept of false prophets and emphasized judging people by their fruits. They highlighted the importance of integrity, discernment as you interact with others. Bonnie stressed the role of the Savior as the ultimate light and the need for both faith and works. LeMira discussed the significance of integrity and aligning actions with Christ's teachings. They concluded by underscoring the necessity of prayer for discernment and the importance of pointing others to Christ, not shining a light to ourselves.

Main Takeaways

• From Bonnie, “I think it all Boils down once again, to the Savior is the light, the Way, the Truth, my everything, right? And if I'm not helping other people come unto him, I could be falling into the trap of being a false prophet.”
• From Tamara, “I need to pray for the spirit of discernment more in my life, because this is something we need God's help doing as we meet and interact with different people, is help me to discern God, you know, who I should be associating with and how I can help. Maybe I'm put in front of them to shine God's light to them, but help me also discern where I'm supposed to be, so that I can discern between the different types of fruits.”
• From LeMira, “It comes back to me that that integrity word. . . am I living true to that? Am I being a good fruit, you know, not a rotten one? Am I reflecting His light, and when I am, they'll see Christ through me.”

Today’s Podcast Hosts & Guests

Tamara K. Anderson

Tamara, founder of Women Warriors of Light, is a dynamic speaker, award winning author, and a podcaster. She is driven by her Christian faith to inspire faith in Jesus Christ. Alongside her husband, Justin, she navigates the joys and challenges of parenting four children with autism, ADHD, and mental health hurdles. You can find out more about Tamara on her website: https://www.tamarakanderson.com/

Bonnie Randall

Bonnie Randall is a wife, mother, trainer, speaker, actress, copywriter, heart centered life coach and has also been a business and marketing consultant for over 20 years. Her real passion is to help people grow as individuals and teach them how to resolve limiting beliefs. Bonnie enjoys teaching about mental health, abuse prevention and recovery classes. She runs a trauma recovery support group and YouTube channel called, Come Off Conqueror, which helps survivors of abuse find Christ centered healing. Find out more at: https://www.youtube.com/@comeoffconqueror

LeMira Wheelwright

LeMira is a member of our advisory board. She is a speaker, coach, and educator who is passionate about helping women heal insecurities, discover their divine potential and shine God's light through their gifts.

Transcript

Tamara Anderson  0:00 

How do you know if a person is good to be around or not so great to be around? Sometimes it's hard to tell, especially when you first meet someone, but today we are going to give you a key that Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount that should help you be able to decide if they're the type of person you want to be hanging around or not, so stay tuned.

Tamara Anderson  0:26 

Welcome to Bible, Women & Bathrobes, the podcast where faith meets comfort. Join us Tuesday morning as the gals from Women Warriors of Light and their guests don bathrobes and dive into the inspiring stories of women in the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ, from Esther's bravery to the Sermon on the Mount. We explore it all with warmth, laughter, sisterhood and maybe even a few sleepy eyed moments. Tune in live or at your leisure, as we learn lessons from scripture which empower women today.

Tamara Anderson  1:08 

Hello and welcome to another episode of Bible, Women and Bathrobes. I'm your host, Tamara K Anderson, and joining me today is my co host, Bonnie Randall, welcome back, Bonnie.

Bonnie Randall  1:18 

Good morning. It's nice to be back after a very long hiatus.

Tamara Anderson  1:23 

Yeah, you had some crazy stuff going on at home, so we totally get it. And today, we're also excited to welcome LeMira Wheelwright. And LeMira is a member of our advisory board. She is a speaker, coach, educator who is passionate about helping women heal insecurities, discover their divine potential and shine God's light through their gifts. So welcome LeMira,

LeMira Wheelwright  1:49 

Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.

Tamara Anderson  1:53 

Yay. It's always good to get someone new on. And today we are in Matthew chapter seven. We're about halfway through the chapter, and we're going to kick it off here in verse 15. We've kind of talked in this chapter a lot about not judging, about asking and receiving, about that golden rule of doing unto others as you would have them do unto you, about how the way to life eternal is strait, meaning narrow, and not very many people find it, and that brings us kind of where we are today.

Tamara Anderson  2:31 

So here's that part that I was talking about at the beginning. Verse 15, beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. And then verse 16, you shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. And so I love that so many times when we meet people, we go, Well, are they a good person? Should I listen to them? Should I not? And that's really where God points us. He says, look at their fruits. Look at their actions. Are their actions coinciding with my word, you know, and what what I've taught you are their actions bringing forth good things? And if they are, I like how the comparison is here of that a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit and good trees bring forth good fruit. So let's kick it off here. Bonnie, any thoughts on those verses?

Bonnie Randall  3:43 

I got hung up for a little bit on false prophets first, because you don't hear that term very often. You know, initially, I think we think about people who claim to speak for the church, or a church Christianity in general, and but when I was doing some research, it also there were some people that suggest so it can also mean like interpreting the Bible In false ways. It can also mean falsely prophesying. So things like Signs of the Times and things like that. Also talking about one of the big ones that stuck out to me was contrary people who teach contrary to God's teaching.

Bonnie Randall  4:37 

So like things that straight up are the opposite of what it teaches in the Bible. So maybe redefining morality, for example, to justify a certain lifestyle or whatever, not pointing to anything in particular here, but I. Thought that was an interesting thing. So then I started thinking, Are there times when, because then he says, it talks about a wolf in sheep's clothing. So like, okay, because those are some blatant false prophets. But what about the wolves and sheep's clothing? How do we determine those ones? Because they seem good, right? They're talking the talk, but are they walking the walk like what he says later on in the thing? So it got me thinking, how do you tell the difference between someone whose heart is truly in the right place? And I sat with that for a while, and one of the main things that came to me was the feeling that that person produces in me.

Bonnie Randall  5:48 

So I'm curious to see, like, what you guys think about that it made me think about like, if someone's prophesying end of times, for example, am I feeling fear, or am I fear feeling confidence, like I can do this. I've got, you know, I'm prepared, or whatever. If they're talking about some interpretation of the Bible, are they making me feel shame, or are they just calling me to repentance and I'm feeling godly sorrow because I made a mistake, right? Like the subtle differences in the feelings that we get from people preaching. So I'm curious what you guys think about this whole Wolf and Sheep's Clothing thing.

Tamara Anderson  6:28 

Yeah. LeMira, thoughts?

LeMira Wheelwright  6:30 

As you're talking. I love, I love how you went to how we feel, right? Because there's a difference between questioning and feeling question with peace underlying, versus confused and just unsettled like it can we can be unsettled, but have this underlying peace, that there is an answer, that there is a way, and yet at the same time somebody you know, perspective is okay. It's okay to have different perspectives. It's okay to open our minds and question and and ask, but it really comes down to to me, integrity, right? And I, and I look at this both as who we hang out with, versus us ourselves too.

LeMira Wheelwright  7:14 

So I was reflecting it back and saying, you know, integrity so many times we think think of as just being honest. But Bonnie, as you were talking and talking about, you know, are we? Are we walking the walk, talking the talk like, truly, that is integrity, right? Who are we when no one's looking? Who are the people that we are around, surrounded by? Do they help us reflect the light of Jesus, Christ and God in our lives, like when we leave, do we leave feeling lighter and better and not heavier and dirty and icky and or even discontent, like angry or malice towards somebody, you know?

LeMira Wheelwright  7:59 

And there's times I always think of the saying, right, if they're talking about somebody else, you know, they're probably talking about you right behind the back, that kind of thing, you know, looking for those little, little clues. And not that people can't change, but it's that overall, am I feeling peace and settled and light and excited about life when I leave somebody, or am I leaving feeling heavy, icky, dirty?

LeMira Wheelwright  8:31 

Recently, in a in a group on Facebook that kind of applied to something that my family's going through and and after a while, I just there was just this unsettled feeling, you know, for me. And not just unsettled, it was not even questioning. It was like ick, you know, and, and it was kind of that fruit of the things that kept coming up. Well, I like to hear where people are so I can understand I felt like it wasn't lifting or helping or moving forward. I felt like it just continually bringing this heavy weight. Instead of helping me see hope and peace and light, it was heavy dark and yeah, I called the niggle like, Can you feel that niggle inside? It's like, like you were saying, Am I feeling guilt, guilt, or am I feeling shame? Like there's two different things. Am I feeling questioned, or, like, confused and dirty, you know, that kind of thing. And so that's, you know, I feel like that's kind of where we go, is like, Oh, how. How does that person help me? Do they reflect the light of Christ and God, and do they help me do that in turn? Do I leave wanting to lift others, or am I bringing people down after I've been with this person?

Tamara Anderson  9:50 

Yeah, oh, I love, I love how we've, we've kind of gone down this path where, where we're learning to listen to our feelings and understand them, and sometimes. Is when we meet new people. I remember I was having a thing at my house when our family lived in Texas, where we I was doing like a support group for families that were involved with special needs kids, and we had this one guy show up one time, and just some of the comments he made. I remember he left and I was talking to one of my friends afterwards. I'm like, Did that feel a little weird to you? She's like, Yeah, it really did and and so it was just kind of that little eeee anyway, you know.

Tamara Anderson  10:28 

Fast forward a couple years, some things happened with this guy, and his fruits were known, that he was not a good person. And anyway, so sometimes we have to listen to our feelings and be in tune with those feelings, just so we can discern and we may not understand them at first, like but it's almost like it's it feels a little different, and we're not sure if that different is good or bad. And so I like how it says here by their fruits. You shall know them. Sometimes you need a little more information before you make a decision. You know,

LeMira Wheelwright  11:10 

You know, I love that you're saying that because as you're coming back to sorry the interruption, because you're talking about going to that group and hearing that gentleman speak and and going, sometimes like, why does that feel off? And then down the road, something else happens, and you go, Oh, okay, you know. Or even going, maybe I should do a little digging, right? Maybe I should do a little research and and see what is behind this. Why does something feel off? Why Does something seem off. And sometimes I'll hear things. I'll listen. I probably could have listened to me like, huh, I haven't thought about that before. And then to have another friend. I love having other like minded friends that come in and say, Oh, but did you hear this? I'm like, Oh. Like, I wouldn't have thought that. And so sometimes having that second witness, you know somebody there and just saying, hey, not not trying to talk about somebody, but to kind of get an objective light on it. Sometimes going, am I did I hear this right? Am I discerning this correctly? Because sometimes, is it an emotion? Is it a bias, or is it actual? That kind of wriggle, since it's all

Tamara Anderson  12:23 

Yeah, yeah, Bonnie looked like he's wanted to say something.

Bonnie Randall  12:27 

I know I always like shifting my, I don't want to interrupt, and I've gotten, like so much better since we've been doing podcasting now for a couple years. Like not interrupting, but it's really hard still. Like the ADD in me is like uhhhh, so sorry. I don't like mean to it's just it is the list. Anyway, you made me think about how that is Satan's number one tactic, though, right? He mingles truth with the philosophies of men, or he mingles, like scripture with like other people's teachings, right, and like his interpretations and stuff.

Bonnie Randall  13:08 

And so I feel like one of the things I've been really working on in the last, oh, I don't know. I mean, probably my whole life, but like, really dedicatedly of the last year is that gift of discernment, LeMira. LeMira, understanding, like, where are these thoughts coming from? Where are these emotions coming from, sifting the truth and pulling out the nuggets of truth? Because I do feel like I can learn something from just about anyone, but not everything that they have to teach me is 100% truth, and I have to be careful at what I'm bringing in.

Bonnie Randall  13:49 

And so I'll go to these conferences and listen to different psychologists or whatever about their different healing paths, right and like and I go on it with this prayer in my heart saying, HEavenly Father. Help me hear what it is that I need to learn from my family, what I need to learn from my clients, and help me to just like, weed out whatever isn't truth or whatever isn't going to help me and my family move forward.

Bonnie Randall  14:20 

And I love that you said that earlier, LeMira, about moving forward like life is about progression. It's about becoming more like our Savior, right? And if what the person's teaching or what I'm teaching isn't moving people forward, then I need to re-examine that. And I feel like, in our space, LeMira can, I'm sure, attest to this as well, like in our space, so many life coaches or therapists or different doctors, anyone in the healing world can become a light unto themselves. And I kept that phrase. From, I think it's an Isaiah kept coming to my mind as I was reading this. "Beware of becoming a light unto yourself."

Bonnie Randall  15:07 

And we tend to forget, like I'm not the one doing the healing. The healing is coming from Christ and His Atonement and the repentance process. The repentance process can happen in our mind, too, and we turn a thought around, or we turn an emotion around, like that's using the atonement. And so many times in my practice, I have to remind myself I'm not the one that's doing this. This is based on the faith of the client, based on their work, and what they're willing to do and how, which takes me to the whole works thing, and I don't know if we'll have time to talk about that, but faith versus works, but that was the other thing that started coming up for me as I kept reading right? Because he says, By they works, you shall know them. And there's this big debate in the Christian community about faith versus works. Where does your salvation come from?

Bonnie Randall  16:09 

And I found a really great article by a pastor where he says, it's not one or the other. We need both. Faith is what our salvation comes from God's grace, right, like him dying on the cross from us, and our faith is what allows us to accept that, but our works are the product of our faith. And I loved that because it helps me understand that I need both. If I truly have faith in that salvation, I will do my best to be like Christ and to act like one of his disciples, like what he has said, this whole Sermon on the Mount right, like the whole message of all this. And I feel like we say this every single episode is it's all about that higher law and pushing us to be just a little bit better. And you said, Tamara, like it's about becoming right, like our works are what help us become. You know, we can't have results without work, right? Like all of our businesses would fail if we didn't show up and do the work. You know?

Tamara Anderson  17:25 

Yeah, I do. I do, and I love, I love so many of the threads that we've talked about this morning, about how it's all about moving us forward, how it's not shining a light unto ourselves, but we're pointing to the true light of Christ. And so I think, really, that's probably one of the defining characteristics of I, They call them false prophets here, or people who aren't pointing us in the right direction. Are they pointing to themselves, or are they pointing to God? And we know that by their works.

Tamara Anderson  17:58 

Um, let me read these final verses and then we can finish discussing. We talked about verse 17, every good tree bringeth forth good fruit. And then verse 18, A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. So you can't be a good tree like a peach tree isn't going to bring forth plums. It's just, it's just not how it's going to happen. And then it says, "Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down and cast into their fire. Wherefore, by their fruits you shall know them."

Tamara Anderson  18:34 

And what, what brought to mind, what this brought to mind was that parable of the wheat and the tares growing together before the Second Coming. You know, we're not at that point in the Scriptures yet, but that's kind of the image that it created in my mind, how wheat and tares look so, so very much alike until the time of reaping, you know. And the tare doesn't have the, the grain of protein at the end, whereas the wheat does. And so we are growing side by side with whole bunch of people, some who are believers, who are trying to follow Jesus Christ, and some who are not. And they're pointing to themselves. And we see a lot of that on social media. And so I love how we've talked about, it's, it's, it's learning to discern, gathering more information. We've talked about that, and then figuring out, is this going to move me forward? Do I have a good feeling about this?

Tamara Anderson  19:29 

Because God will help us know if these people have good fruit or not, should we follow them or not? If they're not bringing us up and they're tearing us down, then maybe we unfollow. You know what I mean? Any thoughts on that? LeMira,

LeMira Wheelwright  19:45 

no, that's, I really feel that same thing, just as you were talking about that and turning, you know, when they say the lights on them, do they encourage us to turn the spotlight on us? Yeah. Right? When we are instruments in His hands, we play the music that He plays for us. You know that we are, we stay in tune. We stay those beautiful things. But even words like self care, you know, it can just a little bit and it becomes selfish care. Whereas self care is so we can be we can be used better for Him, for good, for our families, and to bring that light like we have to, those are important things. Those are true principles.

LeMira Wheelwright  20:32 

However, as soon as I remember reading, gosh, several years ago, a book, very famous author who very well known for his productivity, how well he's doing, and helps people do really well. But the thing that was missing in there, he he literally, in his book, said, God has nothing to do with it. It's like it doesn't matter if I believe in, it doesn't have to cause how hard you work. And I thought that is wrong. Like, yes, we have to work hard, and we have to do that. But all thanks goes to Him. You know, to me, I was like, oh, and I listened, and I think I had read that book twice, and the first time, I don't know if I quite caught that. The second time I went, and I agreed with you, until you took Him out, and you literally said to take Him out, even though you are a religious person, you said, it's not about Him, it's about the work that you're doing. And I thought, Nope, it's about bringing Him glory. And are we? And that's the fruit as I can work as hard as I want, but is it to bring about His purpose or mine? And whose plan Am I following here? So that that to me, that's that fruit, right? Who's it's His fruit, not mine. I just get to help be a gardener in the vineyard.

Tamara Anderson  22:02 

Yeah, reminds me of and we haven't gotten there yet either, but "I am the vine, ye are the branches." This is literally what we're talking about here. Alright, go ahead, Bonnie.

Bonnie Randall  22:10 

I just think like we have in an effort to be PC, right, like he was probably trying to be inclusive and not make agnostics or atheists or non Christians feel a certain way. But it's I think one of the reasons why I started the Come off Conquer channel for women who've been abused was because I felt like in the space that I was in, God was taken out all the time. Like no one ever talked about Him. And I know they do it for inclusion purposes, right? Because they want their facilities and their practices to be, allow people of all walks of life to feel comfortable there, and I can appreciate that.

Bonnie Randall  23:02 

But I remember feeling this really distinct impression that we can't take God out of the healing journey, because He is the ultimate healer. And so many people I've talked to over the last few years and diving into that like head first, right? I've seen it firsthand over and over and over again, that when they start to heal their relationship with God, that's when their healing just exponentially takes off and they start to heal deep, deep wounds that they didn't think they'd ever really be able to get over and that's when forgiveness and reconciliation and these higher laws that we talk about on this show can really start to take place. But we can't evolve to that state without our Savior, He is the missing link there for so many people, and it breaks my heart. And I understand where, where these clinics are coming from and stuff, and I get it, but we need more people like lamira who are willing to stand up for Christ and to be a safe place where we can include God in on on that journey.

Tamara Anderson  24:26 

Absolutely, Oh, I love where we've come. Alright, guys, let's wrap it up. We've talked about knowing people by their fruits and false prophets and lights into themselves and all those kinds of different things and feelings, and, my goodness, we've, we've kind of run the gamut in this podcast. So final takeaways, what? What are your takeaways as we look at these verses from the Sermon on the Mount. Bonnie, let's start with you. Oh,

Bonnie Randall  24:58 

I think it all Boils down once again, to the Savior is the light, the Way, the Truth, my everything, right? And if I'm not helping other people come unto him, I could be falling into the trap of being a false prophet, just like if other people aren't making me feel safe and connected to him and leading me back to him, but they're probably not people I should follow, and I don't necessarily need to worry about the brand of Christianity that they are. It's more about what are they saying and where are they leading me.

Bonnie Randall  25:40 

And I love that I can learn from people of all denominations, because if they're speaking truth and it's leading me back to God, then there's someone I can trust. And I feel like my other biggest takeaway is knowing the way, and we did talk about this exactly, but knowing how God speaks to me, staying so close to him that my feelings can't betray me, does that make sense? So making sure that the revelation I'm receiving and what I'm hearing from other people is from Him and not a wolf.

Tamara Anderson  26:24 

Love it. LeMira, takeaway from today?

LeMira Wheelwright  26:28 

I love everything that both of you have shared. And again, it comes back to me that that integrity word, that when just everything that Bonnie has just shared, and then saying, okay, am I living true to that? Am I being a good am I a good fruit, you know, not a rotten one, you know? And saying, am I, am I reflecting his light, when I am, when I am then this is they'll see Christ through me, right? Can and that's usually what I do, is, if I'm with somebody else, then I turn around, go, Okay, well, am I, am I reflecting his light, or am I, am I, am I bringing something else to the table? And how? What? What am I doing? What is my thing here?

LeMira Wheelwright  27:16 

And I just feel like that, is that. And the other thing is just, I feel to say this, that sometimes somebody will bring a corrupt fruit because they didn't know better, and they can change. And so we allow people to grow and change in that, and sometimes it's just our experience has tainted that fruit a little bit. And then as we heal and we grow and we learn more, we can, we can shift that a little bit. And so just knowing that, you know, sometimes there's the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time going, Oh, maybe there's spewing. Isn't a good fruit. But always coming back to, is it a principle of Jesus Christ? Is it something that's He? Is he is the good fruit, and so is it aligned with him?

Tamara Anderson  28:08 

Oh, I love this so much. I think my biggest takeaway as I've listened to you both, and just what we've been talking about here is that I need to pray for the spirit of discernment more in my life, because this is something we need God's help doing as we meet and interact with different people, is help me to discern God, you know, who I should be associating with and how I can help, and maybe, maybe I'm put in front of them to be, to shine God's light to them, you know, I don't know, but, but help me also discern where I'm supposed to be, so that I can discern between the different types of fruits. Because, as we've discussed, it's not always easy, but I can do it with his help.

Tamara Anderson  29:01 

So anyway, alright, guys, thanks for joining us today. We hope that you've taken something from this discussion that that will help you as you're discerning so many different influences, you know in these last times before Jesus comes again, that you can find good fruit out there and that it will point you to Christ.

Tamara Anderson  29:26 

Thanks for tuning in to Bible, Women and Bathrobes, hosted by Women Warriors of Light. We've loved exploring the stories of remarkable women or the teachings of the Savior. Today with you. If today's episode brought someone special to mind. Be sure to spread the word, and don't forget to hit that subscribe button so you never miss a moment of inspiration and sisterhood. Just a friendly reminder, all opinions we share are entirely personal, as we are trying to decipher and apply Bible teachings, just like you. Lord, until next time, stay faithful and may your journey be blessed and illuminated by God's love.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai